......Harley-Davidsons: Love 'em or Hate 'em??
I have been getting some e-mail about my Harley adventure, and have decided to start posting other people's experiences on my web-site as well (see Other Opinions). If you ride a Harley, and would like to make positive or negative comment on the mechanical reliability of your ride, please e-mail me at ckoeni@gmail.com to be included on the site (if you are a Harley-Davidson employee or otherwise financially connected to Harley-Davidson, you must identify yourself as such). Keep submissions factual and refrain from personal attacks and gobs of foul language, else I will not post you.
The way I see it, everyone who posts on this web-page stands personally behind their words, and I am just the "IT guy" who maintains the web-page. If someone reads your story and wants to say something, they need to be able to contact you directly. Therefore, as a matter of policy, all posters on this page will be added to my e-mail list and will receive e-mails whenever there are additions to this page. If an e-mail address bounces repeatedly, the corresponding post will be removed from this web-page.
I have had several experiences where Harley enthusiasts with a certain "attitude" send me an e-mail, I post them, then after they have read a couple of Harley-negative posts via my e-mail list they get their shorts all in-a-knot and start calling me names and demand to be removed from the e-mail list (usually accompanied by false accusations of not having been removed following previous requests), followed by a flame-war followed by me forwarding their abusive e-mails to their ISP requesting that their e-mail account be revoked, etc, etc. This is particularly interesting behavior because there are both positive and negative posts, and not a single Harley critic has ever flamed me. One might get the impression that Harley riders are not a very tolerant group??..... I repeat, this has happened several times. If you like Harley-Davidson and cannot BEAR(!) to hear criticism of your beloved trademark (!! give me a break !!), or you think debating issues requires name-calling and foul language, then please do not send me an e-mail for posting, as it is a waste of both of our time and energy. Generally my editorial policy is quite wide-open, meaning I post almost anyone who can write a factual on-topic e-mail in reasonably readable English. I would like to keep it that way.
Summary of the problems I have personally experienced with a brand new Sportster in less then 5 years and 20,000 miles:
Other Interesting Sites:
Recalls: Scroll down to see the Harley-Davidson list.
"National Highway Traffic Safety Administration" defect complaint form: If you live in the US, inform the Department of Transportation of any motor vehicle/motorcycle safety issues you have encountered.
Harley-Davidson web e-mail: Corporate offices really don't want to hear from you, since this e-mail page is buried way down in the investor information part of their site. Give 'em hell, if you are inclined.
In the News: (Please feel free to send me other links.)
Brain Injured Man Sues Harley-Davidson For Defect
January 2001: Eye Candy Is Not Good Enough
June 2001: The Plot Thickens
May 2002: Over $700 in Service at 10,000 Miles!!!
September 2002: Lest it be said that I am ALWAYS the bearer of bad Harley news.....
Jun 2004: The last two(!!) straws
Other Opinions: '-' prefix = negative review, '+' prefix = positive review, '?' prefix = mixed review
?MLCarle: "Sportster Annoyances", 06 Apr 2003+DC: "1999 1200 Sporty Custom", 22 Apr 2003
++Bob Meek: "1989 FLH", 29 Apr 2003
+Kjoe: "2002 XL-1200C Experience", 6 May 2003
+Captain Ward: "My Harley experience", 14 May 2003
?Monica Trowbridge: "Harley Site", 14 May 2003
+Chris Brezman: "Harley experience", 22 Nov 2003
+Buzz Morrow: "Harley Reliability", 29 Mar 2004
+John Spofford: "Sportster reliability", 5 Jul 2004
+Manuel Serrano: "Harley's Love'em or Hate'em", 4 Sep 2004+bob: "what the hell???", 12 Dec 2004
-Randy Garrity: "RE: Junk and my years of just that!", 25 Sep 2004
+Terry Allen: "GOOD SPORTSTER", 14 Nov 2004
+Dwight: "1999 XL", 12 Jan 2005
+Rick Pelanek: "2004 XL883", 8 Feb 2005
-Carol Massaro: "Harley Davidson", 13 Apr 2005
+Joseph Wood: "Harley Forum", 19 Aug 2005
+Dan: "my 2004 sportster", 30 Aug 2005
-Gabor Zolna: "Well, were do I begin!", 5 Oct 2005
-terry morton: "06 Street Glide piece of SHIT!!!!", 18 Oct 2005
+Dan: "2004 Sportster", 20 Nov 2005
+/-Mike Elliott: "2004 Electra Glide Classic", 17 Jan 2006
-Tony: "'05 Heritage Softail", 22 Jun 2006
-Bill Ouimet: "Harley addiction", 26 Jun 2006
January 2001: Eye Candy Is Not Good Enough
Me and my Hawg. My first Harley-Davidson.
I love the look and the feel of this bike, which this poor-quality picture doesn't really do justice to. This Sportster turns heads on the street and in parking lots, and it is stock right off of Bartel's showroom floor. Not only does it drive like a rocket, but it sounds and feels like one too, with the trademark vibrating rumbling Harley roar. There is no question that Harley has figured out the aesthetics of selling motorcycles.
Too loud, you say? The truth is many Harley owners alter their bikes after purchase to make them much louder, and then universally wear earplugs. I quite possibly damaged my hearing in my first few months of riding before someone told me this, as even my stock Harley is too loud for my taste without the plugs. With them, I don't mind the noise, because one dimension of the issue is safety....a motorcycle rider who is seen and/or heard is a motorcycle rider who lives. In most car/motorcycle accidents, the car driver invariably didn't even see the bike. That said, I think obscenely loud bikes with little or no muffling at all should be fined right off of the road.
So Harleys are aesthetically correct, what about the engineering?
Unfortunately for Harley, I place much greater weight on engineering than aesthetics when it comes to bikes, and it is the disappointing reliability of this bike that makes me wish I had gone Japanese instead. Right after the 1000 mile mark the gear shifter started sticking, both up and down. This is dangerous. Lube, and more lube, and disassembly by a mechanic at the dealership followed by more lube, helped but did not cure. It has not been sticking recently, but it caused me great aggravation off and on between the 1000-7000 mile marks.
Dieseling. This started around 2000 miles, and continues off and on to this date (7500 miles). A good tune-up might eradicate the problem. But in 10 years and 30,000 miles, my old Yamaha Seca 550 never dieseled once.
Oil leaks. "What, Harley's leak oil?" That is what the mechanic said with a wry smile on his face when I took the bike into my dealer, Bartel's of Marina Del Rey, to diagnose the slick that I was leaving behind me on the pavement. Obviously, the myth that the new Harleys no longer leak oil is indeed just a myth. Mine started leaking from underneath the valve cover of the rear cylinder after a particularly hot ride in slow, heavy traffic on the freeway, at about 5500 miles, just a week or so after my warranty expired. Makes you want to shriek "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE", doesn't it?
But wait, this story is not over. I called the dealer to try to get it fixed, only to find out that Harley is much better at selling bikes then keeping them serviced.....during summer peak season Bartels was booked over a month in advance. But hey, I have tools, I can surely handle a mere valve cover.....so I buy a shop manual for the bike, and a set of gaskets for that rear valve cover, and have a go at it one fall afternoon. First surprise.....in the war on seat height, Harley engineers have the top of the frame passing within an inch of the top of that rear cylinder, and I guess no one noticed that one of the bolts on the cylinder cover is directly underneath the frame. So I had to get out my hacksaw and cut my hex wrench in half to get at that bolt. Irritating, but not yet infuriating.
I removed all the bolts I could get at, and the top of the three-piece cylinder cover, and more bolts, but the rest of the cover would not slide off. Off with the gas tank.....still can't get those pieces off, after an hour of struggle. There is just not enough clearance between the frame and the rest of the engine to get the cylinder cover off. The only solution I could see was REMOVING THE WHOLE DAMNED ENGINE. No mention of this in the shop manual. The mechanic at Bartel's whom I talked to about the job didn't mention this little fact. The guys at the parts desk did not have anything to say either, although I thought I saw some funny looks on their faces. Now I am FURIOUS. Bolt everything back together. Still driving the thing leaking oil. Looking forward to a huge bill when I get it fixed, if they really do have to remove the engine.
Damn poor engineering, or damn poor documentation (in the shop manual) in my not-so-humble opinion.
Bottom line: am I recommending Harleys to people who talk to me about the bike? After relating the above story, how could I? And I repeat, the leak started mere days after the warranty expired, while the bike was essentially still brand new. I am so far very disappointed with this experience.
June 2001: The Plot Thickens: My American-Made Piece of Junk
As it turns out, Bartel's rocket-scientist mechanics were able to get that cover off without pulling the engine, so the oil leak in the rear cyclinder "only" set me back $123.
And then guess what happens not two weeks later? I leave work in the early evening, get all suited up, and hit the "start" button, and absolutely nothing happens. Deader then a door-nail. Followed by a $37 taxi ride home, as Orange County is too good for public transit.
The next day I call Fullerton Harley-Davidson for some advice, and they suggest checking the cables and bolts attached to the battery, as Sportsters vibrate a lot and have a reputation for shaking things loose". Sure enough, a little messing around with wrenches and bolts has the thing running again. I take it to the Fullerton dealer immediately. They take it all apart and clean it up.....apparently the electrical system is badly corroded (something else Sportsters are apparently susceptable to). I drive away another $39 lighter.
Guess what happens one week later? I notice oil spots on the left leg of my pants. Apparently the front cylinder has now sprung an oil leak. Have I mentioned that this is an almost new bike with only eight thousand miles on it!!!!
I no longer refer to this bike as just a Harley.....on a good day, I use the word "junk". You don't want to know what I say on a bad day.
May 2002: Over $700 in Service at 10,000 Miles!!!
In February, I took the Sportster-aka-JUNK in to Vic's Custom Cycle of Tarzana, CA (not a dealer) for the 10,000 mile service, and to plug the now-enormous oil leak in the front cylinder. They seemed to think the leak was from the head gasket, which was $70 alone. Thus, a nominally $300ish major service (already outrageously expensive by the standards of my old Toyota Corolla) becomes a kick in the gut exceeding $700. Worse then my worst case expectations. But then hasn't that always been the case with this bike?
But, you guessed it, I am not finished. Some time in the preceding year I started noticing some odd and intermittent behavior. Every few rides, my JUNK became gutless at highway speeds, straining to maintain 50 mph on the level at or near full-throttle. This is not a comfortable feeling on an LA freeway when you are not driving a VW van. I thought it might be a tuning problem, but the 10,000 mile service did not fix it. Anyone know a good exorcist?
As of May this peculiar behavior seemed to be becoming less frequent, so perhaps(?) an exorcism will not be necessary. Since it is more or less driveable at present, I am resisting the impulse to hand my wallet to a Harley mechanic again.
Maybe all of this is just a very long, difficult, and expensive burn-in period, and JUNK will be a model of reliability for the next 300,000 miles. I will not be holding my breath, I need it to curse Harley-Davidson.
September 2002: Lest it be said that I am ALWAYS the bearer of bad Harley news.....
I just got back from three months out of town, during which JUNK sat outside in the back yard. After not having been started for three months, JUNK started instantly, no cranking required. It must be noted, however, that I live in Southern California in the San Fernando Valley where it is uniformly hot and dry all summer.
Also, this past winter I had a couple of opportunities to ride in very high cross-winds while on the freeway, and was amazed at the stability of the bike in this situation. Solid as a rock. No weaving, no shimmying and shaking, no fighting to maintain a straight line.
:-) And last, but not least, I was on the freeway the other day and started to smell eau-de-BURNT-OIL... A gentle perfume that most Harley riders are well-attuned to. As this continued for several minutes, I started to curse-out my ride as the certainty of yet ANOTHER oil leak slowly grew. And then, out of the middle distance, I saw myself gaining on a sorry excuse for a pick-up truck trailing a cloud of gray smoke behind it....my savior!! Someone else's problem. :-)
Jun 2004: The last two(!!) straws
I am fresh off the freeway, and that piece of HD sh*t I have been trying to ride for the past four years has run out of last chances. Several weeks ago, it stranded me (again!) this time apparently because the vacuum valve in my fuel cock decided to stop working. Tonight for the first time in a long time, it went gutless on me *again* for most of my ride home.... Barely holding 50 MPH at full throttle, and this time with my girlfriend on the back.... How cool is that? How many of you would put up with this from whatever it is you commute to work with every day? This Sportster is my first, last, and soon to be Ex-, Harley-Davidson. It is now beyond a shadow of doubt that in *my* experience, HD does indeed SUCK. I will let the rest of you come to your own conclusions, but this Sportster will be sold before September, and it will then be bringing tears of frustration to someone else's eyes.
Clayton
P.S. I plan on continuing to maintain this web-site and haunt HD Co. for the rest of my days on this planet.
P.P.S. Just to be really clear, I am still experiencing power losses AFTER the fuel cock was replaced....
The End Times May Be Here!
My 1999 1200 Sporty has almost 55,000 miles on it with only a throttle return spring breaking so far. No oil leaks either, although it does eat a bit of oil (about half a quart every 500 miles or so). But I have been religious about oil changes, maintenance and proper warm up procedures. You would be surprised how many HD riders just start and go, then complain about leaks. But to be sure, there is a terrible problem in finding a place to work on your bike that won't try to treat you like a chump, but once you find a good honest wrench, 90% of your HD problems are solved (so treat him right). Later!
DC in Phoenix
My 1989 FLH is pushing 150,000 miles. The engine has never been apart. Normal maintenance and fluid changes every 2,500 miles. It has been to Sturgis from the West Coast several times and is getting ready to go to Chicago. It has a performance cam and re-jetted carb. It must be one that the company did right. BOB
From: Bob <NOSPAMBobmeek@starband.net>
Subject: Harley Experience
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004
Clayton:
I've posted before about my Harley from the 1950's to the present. What I seem to see is bad dealers not bad bikes. No matter what you purchase there are bad dealers (Automobile, airplanes, Home Depot). I posted my 1989 Electra Guide with almost 200,000 miles without a tear down. I purchased a 2003 Electra Guide on August 1, 2003 (20,001 miles and still going) from Gary Bang Harley Davidson in Atascadero, CA and 2004 Heritage Softtail on May 15, 2004. I paid MSRP and a $350 dealer setup fee plus the shipping and taxes. My opinion is that today's Harley is a well built machine that will take you where you want to go without any problems. The machines are near perfect. Some dealers are questionable. Get away from them. The Harley is a fantastic machine.
BOB
My Harley experience started right before my 31st birthday. I bought a brand new 2002 Road King Classic (leather bags, fuel injection etc.). The bike was perfect in every way, however 10 days later I dropped it off at my dealer to have a big bore Stage II kit installed. 95 cu. in. (up from 88), performance cams, air cleaner, fuel injection remapping. The catalog said this was supposed to increase my horsepower from 62 to 78 and my torque from 78 to 93 ft.lbs. I was initially disappointed that the bike didn't really feel faster than before but it ran great. 3 months later at its 5000 mile check-up I had the bike dyno'ed. I had 60 horsepower and 78 ft.lbs of torque. I was at a different dealer at the time because my dealer didn't have a dyno and I always got my bike back filthy after service. This dealer Scanalyzed my bike and discovered I had the wrong fuel injection mapping in the bike. Fixed at no charge. Still pissed off about the lousy power and $2500 worth of apparently useless upgrades. Did I mention the backfiring through the exhaust? Like a shotgun.
Fast forward 6 more months. The bike has never failed me and never leaked a drop of oil. I ride this bike hard and constantly find myself hitting the rev limiter. I pack up for a 1000 mile ride to Arizona. Did that in 2 days. Thank God for windshields! In Arizona I notice an annoying problem. I was in an area of 5000 foot elevation and the bike would sometimes ran poorly (like on one cylinder) at engine speeds above 4500 rpm. To make a long story short a local non-dealer mechanic dignosed an intake vacuum leak that's probably been there since my big-bore kit was installed. At my 10k service in Arizona the dealer fixed the intake leak. Cost $3 dollars for parts (new intake seal, fixed under warranty). Bike runs MUCH better now. I haven't dyno'ed it yet but will soon.
Rode back to California in mid June. Bike ran perfect. Lessons learned from the past 15 months that I've owned the bike:
This bike is comfortable and no problems after 15000 miles. I regularly ride 70-80 mph and the only non-scheduled maintenance I've had to pay for was a worn out rear tire at 12000 miles.
Overall I'm very happy with my Harley!
Hi Clayton,
I have an oil leak problem that seems to require a custom solution, as there is no off the shelf part for my particular engine case. That is how my search engine stumbled across your site.
Any way, I've been reading all these postings with a mixture of sympathy and amusement. My fist bike was a Kawasaki at the age of 16. I saved my pennies worked a night job through high school and bought my first Harley at the age of 19; a 1977 Sportster XLH. A tempermental bike at the best of times. Working on it (and a tight budget) taught me a lot about maintenance.
My current ride I've had for ten years. A generator shovelhead. Best bike I've ever ridden. It's been my daily rider when I have the money to maintain it, the rest of the time it's a bit of a project. Right now it runs astoundingly well. I've got 8000 miles on it since the last rebuild and the gaskets are just starting to weep a little now. I may put new gaskets in it this year, maybe not.
The most important lesson I have learned about Harleys and I include new bikes in this; GET THE ENGINE BALANCED BY A COMPETENT MACHINIST. It will make a world of difference. Your parts will stop falling off, your feet will not buzz off the pegs at high speed, your hands ill not become numb from vibration. and your oil leaks will become much less frequent and severe. You will get twiice the milage out of your engine between rebuilds.
I did it to both my Harleys and it turned them from tempermental and unreliable machines, into very pleasurable rides.
Buzz
From: "Buzz Morrow" <NOSPAMthebuzzworks@hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Balancing
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004Hi Clayton,
this is the response I sent to someone else who contacted me regarding engine balancing.
Hey Rod,
I live near Toronto, so I can't tell you where to go in Florida to get machine work done. When I lived in London, Ontario there was a guy there named Billy Barr who was a Sportster specialist he did an amazing job on my 77 sporty. His shop was called the Hog Shop. I don't know if the old guy is even still alive though.
The shop where I get my work done now is called Motor City Custom in Oshawa, Ontario. It's run by two brothers, Bill and Ron Nicholson. They do good work but they have recently become an Indian dealership.
My advice is that you find somone in your area that builds racing engines for Harleys; they will have the inside line on a good machinist. Go to somone who knows about American V-twin engines. Most guys will not have a clue what they are doing. I had bad luck with taking my shovelhead engine to a shop that does race car engines.
Balancing a Harley is complicated and needs to be done very precisely, but there is a formula to it, so anyone who knows the formula should be able do it as long as he follows all the steps. There are no shortcuts. As I understand it there are two types of balancing that can be done, dynamic and static. Most specialists that I have heard speak on the subject say that static balancing is better. Also, don't expect miracles. A forty five degree V-twin engine will never be as smooth as an inline four or some other configuration. You will still feel the power pulses and such. and your bike will still have that Harley shake when it's idling, but if the balancing is really well done, you should not have any parts falling off and you might even be able to see in your mirrors at highway speed.
Just for a point of reference. before I had my shovelhead balanced, I topped out at 75mph because it was too uncomfortable beyond that, now I can up to about 95 without anything tearing apart. With a smaller sprocket on the back, I'm sure I could clear 100mph easily but I don't want to sacrifice the torque on the bottom end.
Hope this helps
Buzz Morrow
From: "Buzz Morrow" <NOSPAMthebuzzworks@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Questionare
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004Hey Clayton,
Me again! reading all these memos from your web site makes one wonder, why does anybody ride a Harley? There must be a reason. I'll give you my 2 cents worth here.
I began riding a Harley back when they were not a popular machine, when only bikers rode them. The outlaw image was certainly a persuasive factor. I fell in love with Harleys as little boy up in Wasaga beach which was considered neutral territory for many clubs. This was the 70's and the pinnacle of the chopper culture. It was rolling sculpture and no Honda could match these inspirational designs. When I started riding myself at the age of 16, the thing that was noticable, was that japanese bikes were built like consumer products and Harleys were industrial; not pretty, just functional. If you are a tradesman, you know what I mean. The tool designed for the home owner is not the same tool designed for the job site. Of course Harley-Davidson has pretty much adopted the japanese formula for manufacturing now (except maybe the good engineering). It's sad really, there was a time when Harleys were considered one of the best engineered and reliable machines available.
My first Harley was a very used sportster so I avoided the dealership problem from the very beginning and we have a very good custom shop in the area which made my experience better than some I suppose. I'm also mechanically inclined, so I'm not really intimidated by a machine that is tempermental, I see it as a challange and a more authentic motorcycling experience. People who want a maintainence free ride I think don't really "get it", but that's just my perspective.
I've only been to a Harley dealership a for parts or service a few times, and was disgusted every time. My first experience was to replace the starter switch on my sporty. $17.00 for a 75 cent part. I knew right then I wouldn't be visiting the dealership very often. So I learned to service the bike myself and buy aftermarket parts.
So, why do we ride Harleys? Ask yourself that on a perfect day when your bike is running perfectly and the road is just twisty enough. I've ridden many bikes, Japanese, European, etc. There are good points and bad points to them all; but nothing compares to a panhead or a shovelhead for feel and look, it's an experience. I don't like japanese bikes much, just something missing. and I don't like the spongy suspension on most of them. I don't care much for softails either or any five speed Harley for that matter. If I were to go back to Europe now, I would want to take a faster bike with me this time. It sucks running at 80 or 90 miles an hour when everyone else can go 120; but over here, a Harley is plenty fast. I haven't had the pleasure of riding a Ducati or a Cagiva, but I suspect that after getting over the initial intimidation I would really like it.
Well, This sermon went on longer than I intended, but I hope maybe it adds some perspective or a bit of comfort to someone who feels dejected about their current ride. That is of course if you will post this long winded diatribe Clayton.
Chat soon, Buzzman
I read with amusement your 4 year struggle with a Sportster. I've got a 2000 Sport model and have had a few of the same problems. But overall, while the Sportster isn't as reliable as a new Honda, it IS as reliable as a 1970s Honda, which isn't too bad. Harley sells a lot of Sportsters because it says Harley-Davidson on the tank. What most purchasers don't realize is that the Sportster was introduced in 1957 and remains today a 47 year old design. For those of us who rode motorcycles 40 years ago, we think it's pretty cool we can buy a brand new 50-year-old motorcycle. But we don't pretend to believe a 50-year-old design can compare with a new Honda. Most of the 45,000 people who buy Sportsters each year should probably buy a Honda instead. But a Honda doesn't "turns heads on the street and in parking lot," doesn't have "the trademark vibrating rumbling Harley roar," or any of other the reasons you bought your Sportster in the first place. The Sportster is what it is. It's a 50-year-old design. Your sticky gear shifter is a manufacturing defect, not a chronic problem. Harley should've fixed it. But many of your problems were partly self-inflicted:
PS: I've had no dealer problems because I won't let those idiots work on my bike. As for my Hondas, they never need any work ;-)
Editor's Response:Well, I would have to say I Love'em. My first Harley, which I still have, is a 95' 1200 Custom. I rode that bike to Colorado to the Iron Horse Rally back in 99'. I buddy I rode with rode a Suzuki, rice burner, Intruder. We were delayed twice on that trip because of problems with HIS bike. My Sporty rode and performed like a champ, all the way over and all the way back. I've also taken here many times to Laughlin and Palm Springs, in the heat, with no problems. My second Harley is a 94' FXDWG. I've taken this bike to Colorado, Canada, and last year to Sturgis. And I'm not talking about trailering, I'm talking about riding her all the way, with no problems. Maybe I've just been lucky, thank God, and all of you folks have ended up with lemons, but I know lots of Harley owners that would strongly disagree with your opinions on these bikes. Now I'll be the first to admit, they won't take the abuse the Japanese bikes will, but I've never been one to abuse any of my vehicles anyway. From the bad experiences you talk about, I'd have to ask you, did you follow the tips and procedures suggested by the dealer and manufacturer? That is, did you allow your bike to warm up normally without gunning the motor to warm it up quickly? Did you keep the bike at or under 55 for the first, at least 500 miles? I'd venture to guess you didn't. Sorry to hear your experiences have been so negative. Sounds like you all belong on the "Rice Burner" side of motorcycling.
Yours Forever Harley,first you bought the bottom of the barrel...... have a road king here thats been great to me. 1996 with 76000 miles without a prob. wife has a 2000 low rider with 14000 and never been back to the shop. you have to buy up to the better bikes, sportsters are made to run hard and junk them kinda like jap bikes. sorry harley makes a bike like that but to keep up with them. jap bikes are cheap because there made by slave labor. to own a real harley is every mans dream its AMERICAN MADE AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. try the rice bikes there is no comparison to a HD there fast n cheap but ????? who made them? some kid making $1.00 a day??? go figure. hope the point was well made support your own country or give them your $$$$$$$$$
[Editors reply]: Bob, I think you are seriously off with a couple of your assumptions here. I am neither an American citizen nor do I actually live in the USA at present (currently in Beijing) so nationalism provides me with zero incentive for buying a Harley. For me, Harley-Davidson will have to stand on its merits, not on the flag. Also, last I checked Japan is not a third-world country, they have a standard of living that is quite comparable to the USA. So assuming that most or all of the motorcycles they ship to the USA are actually manufactured in Japan (may not be a safe assumption, chime in if anyone has some facts...) I don't think "some kid making $1.00 a day" is at issue here.
From: Bob <noSPAMBobmeek@starband.net>
Subject: Re: what the hell???
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004Clayton, interesting discussion. First the most popular foreign named bike, Honda is manufactured at Marysville, Ohio and Florence, South Carolina. Kawasaki at Lincoln, Nebraska. From my prespective, the notion that a person cannot afford a Harley as opposed to a foreign bike is no longer true. When my wife was ready for her first bike she wanted a Sportster. After sitting on probably 50 bikes she decided on a Honda Shadow that she put 15,000 miles on in 2 years. The price $9,000 out the door, I could have purchased the Sportster for the same $$$$. The Shadow was safe and reliable, but did require constant drive chain maintenance. This was a great first bike and she graduated to a Softtail. Her first comment after we got it home was "I didn't realize how much I was getting beaten up on the Honda". She has had it 4 months and put 5,500 miles on it and would not give it up for anything. The new Harleys as a whole simply do not break down any more than other bikes. If the others are so perfect why do their dealers have repair shops?. Most Harley riders cause their own mechanical problems.
BOB
Let me start off, by saying Im in no way shape or fashion new to motorcycles! AT 49 years old and grew up the first part of my 11 years of age in milwaukee, wisc. And in those years thats about all there was along with some british bikes and a few older indians and one chief which our neighbor owned. I was in love with anything that had two wheels and an engine for as long as my memory serves me and thats at about 3 to 4 years of age! So if I could get a ride on a bike from any adult and had my parents consent I was gone! However as trusting of souls as they were it was kept between them and me period. I wanted a mini bike so bad I couldn't stand it, and as I knew it would be a long wait till one of those graced my legs and arms! So I was patient and other than for hanging off our back yard fence and sitting on it to watch the older kid next door fight to kick his indian to life and one ride on my father's friend's BSA that was about all I had wittnessed on any bike back then except to watch as the local bike gangs rode by my school and other parts of milwaukee back in those days of the mid 60s.
But just think about the flatheads and knuckles and pans I had seen as a young man! What I own now had just come off the assembly line and even at that was in its infantile stage due to they all were pan/shovels. But all the cops rode harleys as well and so it was known only outlaws and cops rode harleys and if you didn't wear tall shiny boots then you most likely wore older oiled engineering boots known as biker/outlaw boots and a black jacket to match its overall look! The japanese bikes hadn't made any more than ink to a drafting table at that point at least in regards to anything that was going to make us look as it had by the start of the late sixtys! AS in 1967 we moved to phoenix, Az and I'm here to tell you this place had a lot of open spaces and a lot of bikes as well! But most of what was running all over its deserts were all european as in huskys, Makos, CZ, OSSA, Montess and Bultacos to name afew!
And before I had to whimper a word! My father went out and bought a 90cc Honda trail bike and by then honda had started to pave the way for the rest who followed! AS that bike was truly an outstanding machine even in those days! And every sunday we and our new desert friends would head off to ride and do what we all loved best! Bikes and each others company. It wasnt long before I had rode yamahas, hondas, kawaskis and all had get kits on them and a pipe to make them what we all wanted FAST! So by the age of 16 I got a job at nights and bought my first motorcycle! A brand new 125 yamaha mxer. 1972 it was and the first year for there all motocross attempt! I raced it but moto only once as my love was either the desert races or TT which was smaller and with a few tight turns thrown in to keep the overall speed down from the half mile otherwise it was closer to that than anything else around. Plus it had one long straightaway coming right out of one tight sweep into a long sweeper turn at the end in which if you had what it took could pitch it and let it all hang out!
So Id forgotten about all the harleys except whenever I'd hear what only they can make in the best sounding of any engine to date other than a built V8 which is the pinnacle of good sound! Even though I loved the snappy throttle response of the two strokes nothing beat the sound coming from any four stroke around! So as the years went so did my racing bikes and instead rode them and went bigger as I grew larger and could handle what was thrown in front of me. Before I was 30 years old I owned 10 bikes and all hondas or yamahas except for one CZ250 a 1975 and there first year to make a drastic change in not only cosmetics but overall from a five-speed trans to a radial finned head and plenty of compression to go with it all! And the handling to control the mighty bike they had created and to this day that bike was the best I'd ever owned and a year for you all to remember! 1975! I bought it right after coming home from a coast to coast hitchhiking trip across america and canada!
Those were the years when all was right except one! A hardley still in davidson years! And as I hitched across this nation and stopping of course at where it all began and little did I know it! But mine to be was rolling off the assembly line if not already. And believe it or not as a Cop bike! So before I knew it I had grown tired of crashing in the deserts and the big 1000 KZ J model I owned at 33 had also grown old in the fact it was fast enough alright as it was the fastest they had until the ninja came along and in fact was too fast for my likes as I'm into speed and it got me into trouble and so I thought? IT has to be time for a harley! I'd wanted to own one for many years without question or doubts as I wasn't one to believe until I owned and went through what I thought not possible with what I had in the earlier jap crap I owned! So I bought my first of five to date and still own as I type this to you!
As the last of which I plan to ever own in fact! Four shovels and my 96 roadking EVO! Harley but put a dent in what's right and in that they had honda to help them or that wouldn't be at all! And I'm here to tell you what honda had done I'm not bitching about at all! ITS what harley did to that EVO engine that has me pissed totally off! In the fast they can't seem to get jack's shit straight even when jack's telling them how to do it? For after enough years as they had to figure out a lot of what should have been done long before they still can't get it right!! The bike was fine until the very day I went and customized it due to an accident I had on account of some ass of a driver pulling a left turn in front of me and this bike I loved and my ex-girlfriend and I at the time! I know what your thinking so don't give it another thought! As I'm damn good with a wrench and as most could tell rode as custom and badass a running bike as they come for 80 inchs worth of fire breathing hell!
Only harley hadn't finnished there home work and that was about to put an end to what I had built and loved so much! In the fact they hadn't clearanced the floorboard mounts from the engine! When I lowered the bike the floorboards obviously had to come up and much to my delight they had finally done this for me or so I'd thought? Instead what they'd done for me was to shake the ever living hell right out of the hualin engine and bike I had into the rotting Roadless king I now sadly own and hate! AS it all but destroyed its engine as it shook and broke all of its lower-end bolts and engine mounts loose or in half! Along with its lower-end cases!! And for which I don't have the money let alone the care to rebuild and right after I had just done that already!! So now we move along to the other hardley and a damned davidson! My 75 flh which I had owned and grown to hate all harleys and thought I'd best give it another chance by the Roadless wonder I now also unhappily own!
As I'm hear to tell anyone who has any brain cells that work in a way of fairness that I'm very aware there's a lot of people own and enjoy these bikes ok. I just wished I could have been one of them and not as I have been in NOT! For this and the others I've owned were all miserable at best! And this 1975 FLH is without question or doubt at the very top of my shit list in all my years of tears period! And if you had known the enormous amount of hours I have into this machine of madness! Not to mention the dollar amount at 17000 dollars its valued at more than anything I had ever owned except the mercedes roadster I had and was a great machine unlike these miserable excuses for an american no less motorcycle and for the facts of our known technology on american soil! Its sad at best and for the best they still seem to need the help of the best around to only get what they do and we have to pay the highest of all in prices to just to own and maintain is the sad truth and of which no one can dispute!
And I will leave on this note! IT wasn't for any lack of love to own one that's without question as I spent and wrenched for years as a lot had rode I still continued to stay by my harleys until the day comes and only a damn fool would continue such an ass of an attempt for what he got every damned time he only hoped it was the last time for the last time is the time you sell it to some poor fool who knows only what his eyes and ears tell him! Just as they had lied to me! Just like a lot of women had also as they all look good! And they all sound good and there all fun to ride! Its the upkeep that sends two apart and hopefully not to the mad-house before you do part!
I have had my 2001 Sportster XLC883 for 3 years now and have only had one problem. I ride it a lot and the bike has never let me down. During our summer 2004 vacation my wife and I loaded up the bike (stuffed the over size saddle bags and tall bag with a roll bag). All told we put at least as much weight on it as it weighs and took off for a 10 day mountain trip. Up and down those hills we went with NO problems (well one, headlight bulb burned out). Through rain and heat, stop and go with only that one problem. I'm still riding today and have NO complaints with my HARLEY DAVIDSON 2001 STOCK SPORTSTER 883C (I am 6' 5" and 230lbs my wife is 5' 9" and 150lbs.) I have no problems, would buy another without hesitation.
Terry Allen[Editors note]: Terry has put 48,000 miles on this bike without serious complaint.
Hey Clayton
In 2001 I purchased a 1999 Sporty. Has the 1200 conversion and a really cool paint job on the tank. It had been a few years since I rode, raising a family and all, so the little sporty just felt nice and low, easy to handle and a lot of pep. I still own it today and plan just to keep it. I ride it to work everyday and take it on weekend rides, it's been to Minnesota, Wisconsin. In Oct 03 I road it from austin tx to big bend national park tx approx 1800 mile ride. I put brakes, tires, 1 battery and a light or two on it. it now has logged 43k. starts runs. The only thing it really burns is those high dollar avon rear tires. I can say it uses a little oil but thats ok, I keep it very clean and it has a nice little place of it's own in my garage, which it will most likely share with a sport touring bike (VFR) or something like that. but I will always ride it as much as possible. One thing i can say is that no matter where i am, how many other machines are around, it always turns heads. its been a good machine but then again I pay close attention to it.
dwight
I don't know if the engineering got better, but I rolled mine out of the dealer, put about 600 miles on it in the first 2 weeks, then took it to Kansas City and back (from Chicago), straight shot each way.
Over the summer, took it to Taos New Mexico. 10,000 miles in the first year alone. The column lock went bad, but they replaced that no questions asked.
I'm very happy with mine. Sorry to hear you got a lemon.
Rick
Hi! My dad owned a 1970's electra glide but did not ride it much. My brother started riding it a lot and had an accident. It slid out and their was no real damage. After the accident the engine needed a rebuild hahhah WTF!!!!!. Then as I grew up I always wanted a Harley because of the looks and the sound. My brother had a 1983 sportster and liked it but complained about the oil leaks. He sold it and got a new sportster 1991. then he got a 1998 FLH "NEW" (they both already have or had problems with under 15 thousand miles on them) . I got my 1973 sportster in 2001. I had SOOOOO many problems I cannot even talk about them and it is not because AMF controlled part of the company AS SO MANY americans say because they are stuck up idiots that think they are the best and harleys are the best !!!!!. Americans are soooo hard headed that they think because it is an american motorcycle it is the best and nothing can be better. I am of european descent and was born in america and I THINK HARLEY DAVIDSON SHOULD BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS. THEY SUCK THEY ARE JUNK AND THEY SMELL LIKE OIL. If anything AMF kept that junk in business and I think AMF sold back the name to GET THE HELL OUT OF MAKING JUNK MOTORCYCLES. I want to buy this tee shirt that says "If harley Davidson built airplanes would you fly in one?" hahaahha . It is true would you fly in one? I think if Harley Davidson was located in Asia or Europe they would have been out of business 90 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But in america they fluorish because americans are in denial and think that everything built in USA is the best!!!! America builds some good cars but for some reason they cannot build a motorcycle engine that can last. I hate Harley's now after owning one for 4 years. I used to think that asian motorcycles are not as good but now I changed my mind and I will be loyal to German BMW's and Asian Yamaha's and Honda's because they are reliable and faster and do not leak oil. Oh and the Harley customer service sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go ahead and attack my opinion on Harley's but when you are in your garage trying to fix it just think about what I said. They suck and you will spend sooo much money and time trying to fix it. I am sure you willl fix it but at what milage 10 thousand 20 thousand????? The BMW I bought has 100,000 plus on it and never had an engine rebuild!!!!! Keep on giving Harley Davidson YOUR money they liike it and they laugh at you hahhhha. I AM SOOO HAPPY I SOLD MY HARLEY AND I WILL NEVER BUY ANYTHING CONNECTED WITH HARLEY DAVIDSON AGAIN NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been riding bikes since age 6 or 7. Mostly dirt bikes but a lot of friends road bikes too. In 1998 I picked up a 1995 Harley Sportster 1200 from a GREAT independent shop in VA. Classic Iron.....would highly recommend them to anyone. I was originally lookin' in the Harley shop right down the street (East Coast HD) but they pissed me off becase the only words I could get out of them were "don't touch the bikes". To this day if I RIDE in there they will speak to me but if I DRIVE they wont say a word. Worst bunch of folks I've ever met.
Anyway I got my bike the first week of December and the second week the tranny went out on my truck. I rode it back and forth 40 miles each way to work until late January when i left to go overseas. Can remember breaking ice off the zipper of my jacket to get it unzipped. For the next 3 years I traveled alot. I would ride the bike hard for 2-3 weeks and then park it outside for 3 months till I came home. Fire it up and repeat. Maint? What Maint.? I changed the oil but that was about it. Crashed it once being dumb then again into a deer in W. VA. Rode it the rest of the way out of W.VA to the Easyriders Rodeo in Chillicothe with the left handlebar directly over the middle of the gas tank. Moon's Mobile Cycle Repair stayed up late to swap bars for me then I continued up to IN and back to VA. Rode it from VA to Denver then up to Sturgis....4 days of riding there then back the same route. Loaded down with camping gear, me and a passenger no less. 5000 miles in 2 weeks. Used to leave VA on a Friday after work and ride straight thru to my parents place in IN then Sunday morning ride back. Probably did that 10 times. After 3 years of that I went overseas for 6 months and when I came home I finally had my first problem....battery was dead. Replaced it and she fired right up and away we went. Mind you I dont drain the oil, gas or put it on a lift. Just shut it off and put her on the kickstand. Rode for 2 months then went to Iraq for a year. Came back and am riding it still. Never has leaked a drop in its life and never has left me stranded. The only parts Ive replaced besides oil filters and tires are things I broke when I crashed.
In '03 I ordered a Road King Classic thru Military Sales and they had to hold it for two years till I could get back to the states and pick it up. Got it early March of this year and have 7300 miles on it now without a problem. Patriot HD handled the delivery and you couldn't ask for a worse dealership. Had no interest in dealing with me at all and even went so far as to tell me "we don't make money on military sales" so we don't have time to worry about you. (For the record HDMoCo pays a dealer a fee to handle the setup delivery etc of a bike purchased thru military sales) Despite the $2000 I spent for backrest, luggage rack, and Screamin Eagle kit.
I ride every day there isn't ice on the road. Road King is outside gettin rained on right now and I will be joining it soon as Im off work. I tell everyone the same thing....my favorite brand of bike is a Honda, they're bulletproof.....but ridin a Harley is like driving a classic car. You know its not the Best car on the road....but from the saddle it sure feels like it.
Happy riding and best of luck with your bikes......whatever brand they may be.
Joseph M. Wood
My name is Dan and I have an 04 1200 sportster custom. After riding this bike for over 12000 miles I can say that I am very pleased with this motorcycle. I did get stranded once, when the bike was brand new --luckily I was only a few miles from the dealership where I bought it and they sent a truck to pick me up.
The service manager at the time ( I don't remember his name but this was at Detroit Harley Davidson in Centerline, Michigan) immediately went to work on it and discovered the battery was defective. He popped in a new battery and I was on my way in less than 15 minutes.
I have had absolutely no further problems--this bike hasn't leaked a single drop of anything, runs very strong, has never had a broken anything, has been absolutely perfect in every way.
I bought this bike last year when I turned 50. This is the first bike I have had in over 20 years and is everything I had hoped it would be. It is also my first Harley and I am looking forward to upgrading in a few years to either a heritage soft-tail or an Electra glide. I have absolutely no trepidations about buying another Harley and (almost) can't wait.
The only complaint I can think of is that the Harley spark plugs don't seem to last very long. I put some Champions in and the bike seems to run better--the plugs definitely last longer. I have to remember to put the Harley plugs back in before I take it in for the naxt scheduled service. Thanks for listening (reading).
I initially purchased a new 1998 Road King Classic with the infamous "Evolution" engine. Harley in the mid 1990 decided to offer fuel injected versions, I suspect due to EPA requirements. After less than five hundred miles of service the bike would not start and I had to bum start it to take it to the dealer. They thought that I had a malfunctioning battery and they replaced it with a new one. Once I returned home I noticed that there were brown stains all over my shiny white walled tire on the rear. I took it back and was told that it was battery acid and that they would replace the tire, rear rotor and any other parts that were acid stained. They thought that they had fixed the problem but wanted to wait to make certain prior to replacing the tire and other acid stained items. They finally had to call the factory for help and found that one of the wires was reversed right from the factory. That was the beginning of a nightmare for me. I ended up having five (5) upper ends, three stators, two motor mounts, one rear master brake cylinder failure, and at 39,990 miles Harley-Davidson decided to replace the bike with a 2000 year model Road King to avoid a law suite that I had intended to file against them.
The new bike arrived in December of 1999, and I was soon to learn that it had the cam bearing problems since it was built in 10/99 and all motors prior to 12/99 were considered to be problematic. I contacted Harley and told them that they gave me this bike and that I wanted the cam bearings replaced since they had a tendency of blowing up the motor whenever they let go. Harley said "if it is not broken we will not fix it"! I could hardly believe that response after having gone through all that I did with my 1999 HD Road King Classic. Eventually as I suspect most of you know, Harley sent out letters to those that had suspect cam bearings and offered them all a five (5) year warranty due to cam bearing failure. That's nice of them to do but I had a seven (&) year extended warranty and I was more interested in reliability and not rotationally hand grenadine my motor.
At approximately 11,000 miles I decided to replace the bearings and the dealer had convinced me to upgrade the motor to a 95 inch, with 303 cams and adjustable pushrods, which after a great deal of discussions, I agree to go ahead and let the dealer build the motor. Initially I was not interested in "screwing" with the motor due to all of the problems that I had with my "Evolution" motor that continually ended up burning a great deal of oil. That motor lasted 8, 318 miles before it too was rebuilt due to a bad wrist in the front cylinder and poor leak down results in the rear cylinder.
The motor (upper-end) was rebuilt and that motor lasted 17,700 miles before the front "O" ring let go and the back cylinder had some carbon stuck which prevented the valve from closing properly. The motor was now completely rebuilt at 48,300 miles, new bottom end, new oil pump, new forged high compression piston's, new screaming eagle heads with compression release valves, new 211 cam set and off I went to break in my 9th motor. I also went through three stators, one motor mount and at 66,000 miles fourth and fifth gear in my transmission broke and the transmission had to be completely rebuilt. When I went to pick up the bike at the dealer, I started the bike, pulled out onto the street and the bike stalled. I restarted the bike, pulled it back into the dealer and told them that it was running on one cylinder, the front one! Initially they thought that a plug might-have gone bad however after replacing the plugs they saw white smoke come out of the right exhaust, I run true duals so the rear cylinder was completely dead. When they broke down the motor the following week, they found that the front cylinder can tensioner had virtually broken completely apart and hand-grenade the motor. I have spent some time on the WEB and found that I am not alone with experiencing failed cam tensioners. It appears that they are the weak link in the Twin Cam motors. I am in the process of having the dealer install an S&S Gear Drive with 510 cams along with a Super Fueling Oil Pump, I hope that these items make the motor more reliable than it has proven to be in the past. Needless to say, I have had many other problems with this bike, such as having ten clutch cables installed before the dealer found a hair line crack in the plastic cam sensor that allowed oil to splash all over my transmission. I have been told that the dealer has never heard of anyone having as many mechanical problems as I have had with both of my Harley-David motorcycles.
I might add that when I experienced all of the many problems that I did with my 1998 Road King Classic, I decided to sell the bike based on all of the problems that I had with it, up until Harley-Davidson agreed to replace it with a 2000 Road King Classic. In the interim I purchased a brand new BMW 1200 LT and it now has 41,000 miles on it and have I had any mechanical problems with it, yes, an ABS sensor went out on it and the rear rotor was replaced under warranty due to brake squeak. I might add when the ABS sensor went out the brakes still functioned but not in the ABS mode. So for those of you out there that "Love to Ride" as Harley promotes, I might suggest that you purchase a bike that spends most of its life on the open road, verses most of its life in Harley-Davidson Dealership being put together, over and over and over again. I honestly believe that Harley-Davidson best that most of the people that buy their bikes do not ride a great deal since if they did, they would soon be out of business, mainly due to the poor mechanical design of their products.
From: Gabor Zolna <noSPAMzolna@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 2004 Sportster
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005Hello Clayton, I enjoy reading the various messages that folks send in to you. I agree that Harley's are not all bad, they do tend to have more problems that their Japanese competitors but as we all know Harley seems to spend more R&D money on paint than on engineering. They are masters in "Milking" out their technology by not being all that concerned about "Updating" their technology and in all honesty, I can't blame them, why spend the money on technology if you do not have to do so. Harley's sell because they are Harley's, plain and simple. I think that a big problem that all of us customers have is somewhat sell induced, when we allow the dealers to "Modify" and or build or motors we are opening up "Pandora's Box". Sure they have certain design flaws such as the cam bearing issues in the early twin cams, and the chain tensioner issues in all of their twin cams, but when we agree to modify our engines we are asking for trouble. The fact is that I honestly believe that most of the dealers mechanics rush the jobs they are working on to beat the "Flat Book Rate" and in doing so, they create new problems for their customers. It is a fact, the majority of Harley riders do not put a great number of miles on their bikes and all shops guarantee their work for a period of ninety days so after work has been done and paid for many problems appear beyond the ninety day period. If the dealers were forced to guarantee their work for a period of one year, I am one hundred percent certain that fewer problems would appear since the mechanics would themselves have to guarantee their work for a full year instead of the standard ninety day guarantee. Clayton, if you recall, I have had five upper ends and one lower end on my 2000 Road King. I agreed to build the first motor to a 95" with 203 cams, mainly due to the fact that I had one of those suspect bikes build prior to 12/99 that had potentially bad cam bearings. The mechanic that built that motor inadvertently lined up the rings and oil ran straight through the motor. The third engine that way built had a bad wrist pin, the forth engine blew the front seal and the fifth engine blew when the chain tensioner let go after eighteen thousand miles of service. It appears that half the problems were mechanical and half the problems were due to the mechanic possibly rushing through the project. The bottom line is that if you ride a Harley and load up the miles, it will break much sooner than a Japanese motorcycle of similar displacement. If no one believes me call an Underwriter at Western Warranty and ask them. Lastly, I also own a BMW 1200 LT, a much superior mechanical motorcycle, but, in all honesty, I ride the Harley more than I do the BMW so, what's that tell you? LOL!
Gabe
I recently sold a Vulcan 2000 that my wife and I rode around the state of Nebraska - Pike's Peak, etc for a total of 4500 miles without any problems. I had 3 other Vulcans before that for a total of 90,000 miles and again NO PROBLEMS!!! I have recently purchased a new 2005 Deluxe with paint peeling off the front fender and a 2006 Street Glide that has been in the shop for radio problems and now a wiring harness that they cannot seem to find time for me or my problems - SAME OLD HARLEY. AMF years might have been better. I was supposed to leave this past Monday for a vacation at Daytona Bike Week and after numerous hours on the phone I found that a wiring harness was supposed to be shipped, and now it is Tuesday and there was no harness delivered and nobody at Harley gives a SHIT. $40,000 later - I SCEEWED UP!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to buy one of the Holy Grail pieces of shit - THINK AGAIN. Please email me if you this this is bull shit. I've got the proof - one is sitting in my driveway and the other is at the Harley dealership in Lexington, KY. T.J. Morton
I bought my Sportster April 15, 2004. I changed the seat and added hard bags and had a stage 1 kit put on her. I now have 19865 miles on it and haven't had a problem with it. Rode to Sturgis SD this year it was a 3500 mile roundtrip, bike performed beautifully. I saw the new Street Glide and it hurts me but I just ordered one, not because I don't like my Sportster but need a little more for two-up riding. I love my SPORTSTER 1200 CUSTOM. Dan
I owned a 1987 FLHTC that I put 120,000 miles on and the only major problem was having to have the heads redone at 108,000 miles. I have since sold the bike to a friend who is still riding it and is thoroughly pleased.
When I sold my '87 FLHTC I upgraded to a 2004 FLHTC thinking that Harley has come a long way from when I started riding and the great service the '87 gave me. Well, was I ever wrong! I took the new bike in for a 20,000 mile service and what I felt was warranty work before it ran out on me. My smaller fairing gauges such as gas, temp, volts and oil pressure would fog over after washing the bike and during humid days, even in the winter with temperatures at 25 degrees. I asked the dealership to replace the gauges and the problem I was having with them. I quote "The gauges are not sealed and this will happen even if we replace them and to just park it in the sun. Oh and by the way this problem is known and not a warranty covered item". Needless to say I was fuming and when I got home called customer service for "The Company". I was basically told the same story. I asked for the CEO's address and will write them and see what transpires.
At this time I am considering a BMW touring bike and am pissed at the Motor Company and the lack of caring for the consumer. Why not reveal this flaw when selling a bike, because sales will then decrease and the stockholders will then be pissed instead of the consumer who spends his/her hard earned dollars and can not afford the stock that keeps the Motor Company's profit at record levels!!!
Mike "Smooth" ElliottLove the site. Some interesting stories.
I have a 2005 Heritage Softail Classic and over the past year or so I have been losing a quart of oil every 2 to 3 months (depending on how much I ride) and plugs going bad. I've been hearing stories that the '05 Heritage has a problem with the valves causing this problem. While speaking to one of the parts guys at Gulf Coast Harley here in Florida he had mentioned this to me also, confirming what I had heard. The bike is still under warranty so I set up an appointment to have it looked at but what got me was when I made the appointment with the service dept., I told the guy what I have learned and he looked at me with all sorts of facial expressions as if I were making it up or something. Wonder what there going to come up with to get out of this. I bought it in August of '04 and it has about 9500 miles on it now.
Was wondering if anyone has heard of this problem with the '05 Heritage?
Tony
From:
Tony
<noSPAMTonymay@IJ.net>
Subject: Update to my previous submition
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006
Just wanted to make an update to my previous remarks.
Recap: '05 Heritage was
using excess oil
and plugs were fouling out. Brought the bike in for service. Bike was
in for a week. Gulfcoast Harley replaced the valve guide seals
and
the 2 plugs. I'll see how it goes from here. By the way there was no
charge for this being it was a defect in the seals. One other thing
here, all the hex bolts and well for that fact ALL the exposed bolts on
the bike have Chrome Toppers to dress the bike up more. They removed
the toppers from the heads (12 in all) and in doing so either cracked
them or broke them off. I questioned this and I was told that it's not
part of the original bike and there for they are not responsible for
them and were not going to replace them. For gods sakes, are they going
to destroy every part not originally equipped on the bike to do
service? Especially when this was a defect on the valve guide seals. If
there were no defect then the heads would not have to be taken off !! I
have about $10,000 of extras on the bike that are not originally part
of the bike. I know I'm blowing off some steam here but is it me or am
I missing something here?
On another note: While the bike was in for service I questioned another
problem I had. Has to do with the Saddle bags. Both saddle bags are
cracking vertically where the holes are for the mounts. (Keep in mind I
purchased the extended service warranty). In the contract it
states "Saddle Bags". No if's and's or butts. No exclusions. The answer
I got was, "the bags are not covered" Said the cracks are from the bike
either falling over and causing this, (the bike has NEVER BEEN DOWN) or
overloading the bags, which I never do.
Well that's it for now. Thanks for letting me vent.
From:
Tony
<noSPAMTonymay@IJ.net>
Subject: Need to clarify something
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006
To make this short, I had a
problem with
the oil level on my '05 Heritage. I have seen some remarks on the site
referring to this i.e.: "How can this guy let this go on for so long"
and "What did he think, it was going to fix it itself". Here's the
answer: This was my 1st Harley,
(I've had many other bikes), thinking the Techs at Harley (at this
point) knew more about this engine than I. The first time I noticed
this problem I brought it to the attention of the Harley Techs. Yes
there answer at that point was to let's keep a close eye on this and
take it from there. I DID NOT just let this go by and do NOTHING! I
started my research, and in turn learning a lot more about the engine,
talking to motor heads, research on the internet,
talking to
other bikers, etc etc etc.
AND just for the record it wasn't a year that this went on, it was more
like 3 months. The problem was noticed, I added some oil. It was
noticed again and that's when I brought it to the Harley Techs
attention. The third month I noticed it again and went into Harley and
told THEM what the problem was, (after doing my research). I
left
the bike and they replaced the valve guide seals (not with originals
but with the new ones) and I haven't had a problem since. So Live and
learn I guess, right?
There, I said it ! Now let it go !
Tony
My friend just bought 06 road glide ($29,000) above 60mph severe buffeting - bought windscreen adapter - less buffeting but still annoying - wife on back experiences extreme buffeting - so much that she can't concentrate vision on any object - everything is blurred - any suggestions beside purchase BMW 1200 rt - that's my suggestion - he's a Harley dude - it's a sickness - Bill
Editor's note: When my Sportster was new I also had a tremendous amount of wind buffeting. I have a Custom with forward pegs, and my leg position seemed to be just right to direct the blast off my knees right up under my chin. Felt like it was going to rip my helmet right off, and my head with it. I like those forward pegs, so instead of moving them back, the solution I found was to install a big removeable/adjustable wind-screen with lowers, and then I had to fiddle with it until the aerodynamics were just right to send the blast over my head. The moral of my story is, just installing the wind-screen was not enough, in some positions it seemed to do not much good at all. For that much money, trading over to a BMW also sounds like a very good option.
From: Mike Elliott
<noSPAMhd90fx@everestkc.net>
Subject: Re: [Harleys?] Re: Harley addiction
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006
You will get some buffeting from the wind due to the eglide
fairing
but i found a solution for a fairing that works great for me an my
passenger, wife. Check out this web site and if you have any questions
at all call Robin or Pat as they are really good down to earth people
who came up with a common sense product.
Mike "Smooth" Elliott
www.customflhtwindshields.net
From: jaclyn
collupy <noSPAMjjcollupy@msn.com>
Subject: FLHTCUI
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006
Hi Clayton,
Sorry to hear about your problems with your Harley. I was
wondering and I'm still reading the opinions of others on the site you
posted. do you know if their have been problems with the 2006
FLHTCUI Classic, front motor mounts? One of our club members
went down on his bike and put him in the hospital and the bike is a
wreck.
After the 5k service our front mount was replaced and his too.
If you hear of anything concerning this problem please pass it on to us.
Thank you, Jackie
First Service performed by OCHD on December 7, 1999
2,500 mile service performed on January 13, 2000 oil& filter
Rear Tire Installed on March 22, 2000 with only 4,200 miles on the bike,
5,000 mile service performed on April 3, 2000 oil & filter, primary and transmission fluid change.
7,157 mile service performed on June 1,2000 oil change + filter, plus adjust primary chain.
Clutch Cable replaced at 9,200 miles.
Battery replaced under warranty at 9,300 miles August 22, 2000
10,000, mile service performed on August 26, 2000
Rear tire replaced at 10,000 miles,
Oil leaks repaired under warranty, stater plug was leaking, stater was replaced. Motor mount was replaced, as was the clutch cable (for the 4th time) on Saturday November 18, 2000
Oil Leak, cam cover seal replaced November 30, 2000, clutch cable properly secured to prevent it from rubbing against the motor.
Eight additional drop off visits to dealer to try and determine leak at clutch cable by transmission. After the Cam cover was replaced, it was eventually determined that the plastic cam sensing unit had a hair line crack in it that allowed the oil to leak out and splash onto the transmission.
95” Big Bore Kit installed December 14, 2000 at 11,485 Defective cam bearing were replaced at that time as well. Wolf built that motor! UPPER END NUMBER 2*******************
500 mile oil change and filter December 16, 2000 12,000 miles
Rear tire replaced at 13,300 miles January 24, 2001
Stater replaced under warranty at 13, 300 miles for the 2nd time, primary oil changed as well January 24, 2001
Oil and Filter replaced at 13, 300 miles January 24, 2001
Piston Rings and oil seals replaced at 14,750 miles, April 12, 2001 Victor built the motor!
Major service, primary, transmission and oil change plus filter at 15,000 miles April 14, 2001
New Front Tire at 15,500 & Oil Changed.
Rear Tire Replaced at 17,175 rear brakes replaced as well on July 21,
Hydraulic Lifters and adjustable push rods replaced at 18,000 miles under warranty on August 26 2001.
New Upper End, Big Bore Barrels, Piston’s and Rings replaced under warranty at 19,800 miles November 7, 2001, wrist pin was allowing the piston to wobble! Mike built that motor! UPPER END NUMBER 3***************************
Oil and Filter changed on November 12, 2001 after 500 mile break-in!
New Metzler Tires and new Kevlar brakes installed all around on December 19, 2001 with 21,148 miles on the bike.
Oil & Filter changed at 22,500 miles on January 20, 2002
Oil & Filter, Primary and Transmission 25,000 mile Service April 1, 2002
Rear tire replaced at 25,960 miles, the rear rotor was replaced with a floating rotor and the rear brakes were replaced as well on May 20, 2002.
Oil & Filter changed at 27,500 miles on June 17, 2002
Motor Mount and right signal switch replaced under warranty at 28, 600 miles in July 2002
30,000 mile service, plugs, primary, transmission, oil and filter, August 11, 2002
Floating Rotors, installed front and rear August 28, 2002
Front and rear Metzler tires installed at 31,148 miles, 5,188 miles on rear tire prior to replacement on September 9, 2002
Oil & Filter replaced at 32,500 miles on October 8, 2002
Oil & Filter & Transmission and Primary fluid changed at 35,000 miles on November 29, 2002
Rear tire replaced at 36,178 miles on January 22, 2003 tire lasted 5,031 miles.
New battery installed January 27, 2003 previous battery replaced August 22, 2000 it was replaced after two years and five months of service.
Oil & Filter installed at 37,500.00 March 8, 2003 Mobile One V-Twin
Oil & filter, Primary and transmission fluids changed with Mobile One V-Twin on June 12, 2003 at 40,000.00, Front Fork fluid changed as well
Rear tire replaced at 42,000 miles
Oil & Filter replaced at 42,500 miles Mobile One V-Twin
Oil, filter, primary and transmission fluid (Bel Ray Gear Saver) changed at 45,000 miles Mobile One V-twin
Oil & filter replaced 47,500 miles Mobile One V-twin
Front “O” ring let go rear cylinder failed compression test, complete motor rebuild including new crank(bottom end), new high compression pistons, compression release valves, Screaming Eagle Heads, 211 high lift cam, new UPDATED oil pump, lifters, Power Commander III, etc at 48,300 miles Tony built that motor COMPLETE MOTOR REBUILT NUMBER 4******************************
Oil & filter replaced at 48,800 after 500 mile break-in
Oil, filter, primary and transmission fluids replaced at 50,000 miles
Dealer installed 1” rear wheel bearings when ¾” rear wheel bearing should have been installed. I rode 2,800 miles on the incorrect bearing prior to the rear wheel bearing failing. Rear tire, wheel bearings front and rear along with new chrome five spoke wheels installed at 52,000 miles by the dealer.
Oil & filter replaced at 52,000 miles Mobile One V-Twin
Oil, filter, primary and transmission fluid replaced at 55,000 miles Mobile One V-Twin
Rear tire replaced at 57,680 miles on November 22, 2004
Throttle body was checked by OCHD and lock nut was not secured and throttle body fell apart on the 15 Freeway. I jury rigged the throttle body, drove the bike to Temecula Harley and purchased a new one and installed it in the parking lot by myself.
Oil, filter, spark plugs, primary and transmission fluid changed at 60,000 miles, Air filter cleaned and re-installed. Stater replaced (third one) and oil seals at transmission shifter replaced as well. Primary Chain and primary shoe replaced.
Rear tire and front tire replaced with Metzler M880 along with new brake pads both front and rear at 63,600 miles, resulting in 6,020 miles on rear tire. Front tire was replaced after 12,128 miles.
Oil, filter, primary and transmission service and fluid changed at 65,000 miles on August 1, 2005 Mobile One V Twin. Air filter cleaned and re-installed as well. Metal shavings noticed in transmission.
Installed Vance & Hines true dual exhaust with new baffles on August 13, 2005.
Installed new Harley-Davidson battery on August 15, 2005, installed new brake pads on front of bike.
Transmission rebuilt (first and second gear cracked due to metal fatigue) at 66,250 miles on September 24, 2005. Leak-down test performed and test results indicate that the motor is sound. Drive belt and clutch replaced, cost $365.00
Motor ran on one cylinder after less than ½ mile leaving the dealer when I picked the bike up on September 24, 2005. Motor began to blow white smoke out of front cylinder, apparently cam tensioner broke and took out the oil pump, front valves, etc. Complete motor upper-end rebuild required. Oil pump replaced with high flow “Fluer Oil Pump, both cylinders honed and new rings installed, heads and valves redone, new lifters installed along with S&S Gear Drive with new 510 lift S & S cams along with a HD Race Tuner at 66,255 miles on September 27, 2005. New primary chain installed as well S&S Gear Set, Race Tuner and Fueler Oil Pump. Larry rebuilt the transmission and Tony rebuilt that motor number 5*************
Picked up bike on Tuesday October 18, 2005 from OCHD, the neutral light went on in 5th gear. Returned to dealer and they found a bur on the drum within the transmission. Drove the bike for twenty five miles and stopped for gas, drove to store turned off bike and when I tried to start the bike it made some grinding noise and would not start. The engine light would not come on and it appeared that there was no longer the same compression. The bike was taken to my home via Triple “A” on a flat bed truck.
OCHD picked the bike up the next day on October 19, 2005 and replaced the ECM (Electronic Control Module) under the extended warranty contract. The extended warranty company has paid $6,900.00 in repairs as of October 22, 2005. I still have one full year of extended warranty available on this motorcycle.
I rode the bike for 500 miles in order to effectively break the new rings in I never exceeded over 3,000 RPM and ran the motor between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM for the first five hundred miles and changed the oil and filter at 66,707 miles on October 23, 2005, with Mobil One V-Twin.
On Sunday October 30, 2005, I rode the bike for 350 miles and was informed by three of my friends that I was riding with that I am blowing oil when I accelerate from a light out of both of my exhaust pipes. I pulled over let the bike idle for a few minutes and found that I was down ¾ of a quart of oil in only 359 miles. One of my friends also noticed that there was oil all over the front cylinder and it appeared to be coming from the head gasket and not the rocker-boxes. I called Bud at the dealer, made him aware of my problem, I also left a message for Tom at OCHD and I plan on dropping the bike off on Tuesday November 1, 2005.
After the dealer examined the motorcycle they determined that the oil filter did not seal properly which explained the oil loss, they also found that the fuel line underneath the gas tank was not secured properly and raw gas leaked all over the front of the motor as it dripped down the hot exhaust flange. I consider myself fortunate that there was not a fire or worse yet and explosion due to the raw gas hitting the front of my hot motor.
Rear tire replaced at 68,098 miles on November 18, 2005 due to screw penetrating tread, resulting in 4,498 miles of service.
5,000 mile service at 70,000 miles, oil filter, Mobil One, primary oil and transmission oil changed on January 7, 2006
Engine
history,
interesting statistics
Motor number one lasted
11,485 miles HD Factory
Motor number two lasted
8,315 miles Wolf Rings lined up
Motor number three
lasted 28,500 miles Mike Wrist Pin was defective
Motor number four
lasted 17,950 miles Tony Front “O” ring let go
Motor number five Tony Cam tensioner broke
Motor number
six……………..????????????????
New Metzler M 880 tires front and rear at 72,350 miles, installed on May 27, 2006, rode 4,202 miles on the other rear tire. Front tire lasted 13,595 miles, although it still had sufficient tread, it was badly cupped when replaced.
75,000 mile service, oil, filter, Mobile One, primary fluid and transmission fluid replaced on June 26, 2006. Throttle cables and clutch cable lubricated and adjusted as well.
Bike
in for warranty
repairs on July 19, 2006. Right turn signal switch, front motor
mount, intake manifold gasket, spark plugs, ignition wires and rear
swing arm replaced, original swing arm was cracked directly in front
of rear axle bolt on the left had side.
Rear tire replaced at 77,000 miles on September 10, 2006
80,000 mile service, oil, filter, Mobile One, primary fluid and transmission fluid replaced on November 21, 2006. Throttle and clutch cable adjusted.